[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to Business Drivers, the podcast dedicated to helping you be a more effective leader. Each episode, we connect you to the people and ideas that will help you unlock new growth, both professionally and personally. Business Drivers is presented by Farron, a Minnesota based digital strategy and leadership consultancy. And I'm your host, Jim Keene. Our guest for this episode is Kurt Schmidt. Kurt's a longtime leader in the Twin City software development space. He's a partner at Foundry, an innovation and design firm that's working with companies to grow through better digital experiences. Kurt also has a really popular podcast called the Schmidt List, and he's an author, as well as being an expert on networking to grow your career. In this talk, we go deep into Curt's story, and we get into his start as a pro BMXer and the lessons he learned as the son of a small business owner. You're also going to get some tips on how to be a better listener while networking, and you'll get a great sense of how a purpose led leader like Kurt connects with empathy, honesty, and a desire to put good out into the world. Thanks for listening and hope you liked.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: This conversation with Kurt.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: Kurt, you've got so much going on. You are a busy man. I'm not trying to. People that are busier than you. Can you explain the work that you do and the people that you work with?
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate you having me on the show. It means a lot to me. I'm a big fan of yours and the work that you do. So being here is an honor. I would say the work I'm trying to do is just make the world a better place than I found it in as many aspects as I possibly can. So, as you know, I am a partner in a agency called Foundry, where we design and build software for companies. And one of the reasons why we wanted to start that business was because all the software out there that we were using was terrible to use, and we wanted to make it better, and people wanted to make the software better themselves, and so we had the skills to help them. So we started that. I wrote a book on networking because during the pandemic, I noticed a lot of people had gotten laid off. And I was chatting with a lot of folks, and their resumes were fine, their experience was fine, their education was fine, but their networks were terrible. And they always looked at networking as some sort of slimy sort of thing. And I thought that that's not right. Networking is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to help you grow and get better at what you do so.
So, yeah, that. And then, plus, I'm doing a lot of speaking events in the podcast, much like yourself.
You know, my hope is to highlight people who need to be highlighted who maybe don't get the praise that they. That they get on a daily basis and. And have them on the show. So everything I'm trying to do is, I guess, is just trying to leave a little bit bigger, better legacy than what I found when I, when I showed up in the digital space.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: So, businessman, business leader, author, generally good human.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: Sounds great when you say it. Jim.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: Do you actually have you done the work to kind of get to your why? You know, how when people ask, you ask your business or your brand, like, what is your why? So, Kurt, have you figured yours out?
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, again, back to what I was saying, is that I feel that there's a sense of urgency because when I was. When I was younger, I didn't have the capabilities or the accessibility to leadership which we have now.
So back then, you had kind of the Jack Welsh sort of book handbook on management, right, from General Motors. Right. That was kind of the deal.
And there wasn't podcasts, there wasn't YouTube videos, there wasn't all these things that allowed you to get access to business leaders, business owners, and learn from them. And so I really felt like if I would have had that sort of access, if I would have had that ability, that I probably could have moved sooner, faster. Maybe that's wrong. I don't know. That's just my perspective. But I guarantee you I would have loved when I was 27, to have access to a guy that owns an agency downtown who's written a book and blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? Like, I would have loved to be able to pick that person's brain and ask them questions. And so I feel as if I've got to give myself access. And my father, who is a minister, taught me very early on that part of being a man is to surrender privilege and to find ways to surrender privilege, because that makes the world better around us. And so I would say that that's a big part of my. Why is that being able to take what genetics and the world has provided me by being a white male in this society is that being able to provide and share some of the privilege that I have with other folks is a very important part about why I do what I do.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: You mentioned a little bit about your past and, you know, your father being a minister, and you didn't have access to the kind of leadership information that you have now. Like, how did you get started? What was the original plan?
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Oh, the original plan was I was going to. Well, my original plan when I was a teenager was I was going to be one of the top professional bmx riders in the world. And, uh, and then when I turned 20, I accomplished that. I became one of the top twelve riders in the world. And then I was kind of like, now what? Um, so, uh, a couple other people, we were sponsored by Harle bikes at the time, and we decided that at 20, you know, we're obviously smarter than all these other people. Right, Jim? So, um, so we started our own bike company, and we started developing parts at first, and soft goods. And then it grew, and it grew and grew and grew pretty sizably until we were making frames and forks and handlebars and other more significant parts for bikes. And it was being built by Waterford precision cycles up in Wisconsin, which, uh, is one of the premier bicycle builders in the country. And, uh, and it was just, it was going great. But I found myself being less and less satisfied by the, uh, being a professional athlete, and more and more excited about, um, the Internet and digital and, uh, marketing and sales and everything to do with, um, that side of the business got really exciting for me. And so I eventually sold my shares off to my partner at the time, and then went to college for visual communications, as you do, and then came out and got my first job at UnitedHealthcare, which is part of the tradition in Minnesota. It's either target or united healthcare or something, right?
And I really enjoyed the people there. I hated the corporate atmosphere. And so I thought, you know what?
I enjoy piracy more than the navy. So I decided to go back to agency kind of world and become a pirate. And that's where things got started. I was a designer and developer and realized that I wasn't very good at either of those things, but what I was good at was rallying the team of designers and developers.
And that's where I really started to lean into my growth as a leader. Um, and that's the path I've been on ever since.
[00:08:03] Speaker A: There is so much to unpack there. Uh, I have all sorts of questions, but what a, what a great story.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: I just.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: I just sort of have to ask, in hindsight, are you surprised that a professional bmx or didn't really love corporate culture at United Healthcare?
[00:08:19] Speaker B: You know, honestly, I thought that, um, I thought that just like any other job, because I had had other jobs before, that it wasn't so much about the place, but it was really about the people.
But that was a, that was different.
It was, it was, you know, and again, don't get me wrong, but it was, for me personally, it was a much more oppressive environment than I had anticipated, and I didn't real. I thought there was something wrong with me. Right. I didn't realize that there, most of the people I was working with, a job wasn't a means to an end. Like, they were going to get their Floridian, and then they were off to the cabin. Like, that's. That's all the only reason they were there. But for me, work was a very big part of how I defined myself is a big part of how I define myself as a human being. And so having that, that environment, I didn't understand the idea of that. I could just shut it all off at 05:00, but other people could. And at the time, I thought there was something wrong with me. Then I realized later, like, oh, no, it's just different choices.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: So, yeah, that overlap between your work as a means and work as identity is a really important concept, I think, for everyone to understand at some point in their life. And it sounds like you, that overlap wasn't made clear to you until after you had left.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: No, it wasn't. I mean, again, the, the, you know, I, growing up, my. As I mentioned, my father was a minister, but he also. That didn't pay the bills, so. So he was a camera repair man, and he, um, he ran a small camera repair business out of the house where we'd have customers show up at the front door, ring the doorbell, pick up cameras, drop off cameras. Um, uh, he did a lot of repair for brown and black's camera back in the day when they were still, still around. Um, and, uh, and so, and so my dad was, you know, uh, on Saturday nights, he'd be at the kitchen table, dimly lit, would typing away on his typewriter, getting his sermon ready for Sunday. Um, after dinner, he'd go and he'd tinker around with some more cameras that were giving him trouble earlier that day. So, like, to me, this is just, this is just how you kind of lived, you know, like, work is just kind of woven into your life. And that felt good to me. It felt comfortable, it felt flexible. And, and, and I I thought that that was odd. Like, that was like the way I grew up. None of my friends parents lived like that, right? Their dads were gone from 08:00 a.m. Till 07:00 p.m. You know, most days, whereas my dad was around all day long. It was great.
I didn't realize how lucky I was until I was much older.
[00:11:20] Speaker A: Well, what a role model.
It's mission maker. Like, hands on maker.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: And leader and present that. What a gift in some ways.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. He was absolutely my hero. And it's. It's. It's a. It's something I strive to achieve all the time with my boys, so. Right.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: But also an example of when your work and your life are, in a lot of ways, one and the same.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: It's not.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: Not that many people can sustain a whole career like that. Some people. I'm raising my hand. Some people sort of hit a wall at some point where they realize that, um, there is a difference between your work and your. Your identity. But, uh, it sounds like you were lucky enough to get a chance to. To learn about that early in your career. What kind of lessons. What kind of leadership lessons do you. Do you understand now that you wish you knew back then?
[00:12:23] Speaker B: You know, obviously, that, uh, you know, the. The one thing that some of the early mistakes that I made in my leadership journey was, was I didn't realize the impact of being a leader. First of all, there's a lot of people that are leaders, and they have a problem with the word leader.
They are leaders. But if you were to say, oh, you're such a good leader, they're like, what? No, I don't have that title or something. So there's a lot of societal norms that I always have found interesting is that you can't be a leader without a title or these stories that we tell ourselves that hold us back.
And again, my father used to always say, don't say no for somebody else.
Don't say, you can be a leader. Just go and be a leader. Nobody's telling you no, and you don't need a title. There's no rulebook. If there is, I haven't seen it.
So me, early on, I think part of that, uh, you know, being a professional athlete, I understood that grit and resilience would get me through a lot of. Yeah, a lot of things. And I would say that being able to translate that grit and resilience from being an athlete into getting work done and working with people was probably the most important transition that I made, but also probably took the longest.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: The other thing I would imagine that you brought to your work was a developmental mindset as an athlete, as you're learning how to do what you do, especially bmx, especially something as complex and dangerous and hard as what you were doing.
You have to be willing to literally get banged up and be open to feedback.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:14:23] Speaker A: Is that something you were always good at off the bike?
[00:14:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I would say that that was one of the things that was really eye opening because one of the one. When I joined a larger company and I had a lot of peers around me, I felt very natural managing up and managing across managing a team was always challenging, but I had no problem managing my boss or managing people in authority or managing peers. But I noticed my peers had real struggles with it. They were not good at managing the boss or their expectations, and they were not good at managing across departments and ventures. It was. It was really odd to me. I didn't understand why. I felt that it was natural for me, and these other people would come to me for advice and ask, like, oh, how come the boss always goes with your ideas? And I'm like, well, I make it their idea. Yeah. Like, how do you do that? And I'm like, well, I don't. I don't know exactly. I did, you know, it's not a trick. I'm not being manipulative.
I'm just trying to show them the benefits of these. Of these things and allowing them to take some credit for it. And anyways, I could go on and on about how to manage up, but I. I didn't really notice it until people started calling it out. I guess Jim is, I guess what I'm going for there.
[00:15:49] Speaker A: Maybe that'll be your third book.
You got networking down. I know you're working on your next. Maybe managing up for first time managers is going to be your third book.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: I would enjoy writing that book.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: So tell me the story of how foundry came together. I've been, as you might know, I've been a fan, and I appreciate that. An avid watcher from afar.
How did you guys pull this together?
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Yeah, so foundry was originally kind of initially put together by a guy named Robert and Nils. And at the time, Nils. Well, still to this day, I guess so. Nils older brother and I have been best friends since we were teenagers, and we used to ride bmx together. Actually, Nils older brother was the brand manager for Haro bicycles for a number of years.
And so I knew Nils when he was, you know, like, this big. You know, he's just a little guy. I think I first met him when he was, like, eleven or twelve or something. And, you know, I was at a very large agency, the nerdery. At the time, we were about 550 people, five locations across the country.
And Nils and this Robert had started to build this small agency, they were just kind of cobbling it together and they had one, one client and a couple of contractors and they were trying to make it work. And Nils would always go to his older brother for advice, as you do, right. People go to their older brothers for advice.
But when it became more specific to building an agency and these things, hes like, why dont you just talk to Kurt? Hes at this big giant agency. You just chat with him and ask him some questions. And so I got reintroduced to Nils during that, and I ended up going out to a bunch of happy hours with the guys. And we found out that we had a lot of things in common. We had maybe not the exact same dream, but we had a shared dream for not only creating a business that built beautiful things, but that also was a haven for people that were up and coming in their career and could feel that they were in a safe place to explore and flex their capabilities. But not just people up and coming in their career, but also people very senior in their career, people who maybe have gotten burnt out by maybe the corporate structure. And we're looking maybe like those piracy, that piracy might be a good place to go. So being able to match those two groups together in a way that has just been able to, we've been able to really create some magic culturally over the years. Now, it's not without its up and downs, but we've been around for eight years, be nine years next year. So things have been great. It's been, you know, the curve has been up in to the right, as they say, so forward, never straight. Yeah, exactly.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: So you do have a lot going on, and it makes me wonder, how do you stay sharp as a leader?
So, first of all, how do you stay sharp and ready as a leader with so many things happening?
[00:19:13] Speaker B: That's a great question. So one of the number one things is by, and this might seem counterintuitive, but it is by putting myself out there, by doing the podcast that I do, by writing the book that I do, by doing the speaking events, by posting on LinkedIn.
These things allow me. I almost look at it like putting lines in the water, and every once in a while I can hook a great idea from it.
But unless I was the one casting my line, nobody's going to cast the lineup for me, I guess, is the way I look at it. So that has been really helpful and beneficial for me in my personal, personal growth and then also with the team and the people that we work with, you know, building a solid communication pattern and network internally with the team, making sure that I'm not the scary owner person, that you can't just slack and be like, hey, I've got a question. Right?
Or that if I slack them and said, hey, do you got a minute? They don't think they're getting fired.
Being able to build relationships purposefully and intentionally, that's been a big part of it, is that I can't ever take anything for granted when it comes to my interactions with our employees or teams. And I try to do the same thing when I'm networking, is to not take things for granted, try to be fully attentive, be an active listener, be fully present.
And I think that's been the most beneficial for me, is just learning some patience.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: So can I dig into that last point, not the patients one, but the being fully present and intentional?
I spend a lot of time talking to people that are in transition, or they're looking for their next thing, or they're trying to figure out what comes next. And I always want to be at my best when I'm talking to those folks because, you know, I can almost trace back the good things that have happened to me in my career back to a couple specific conversations where somebody did something for me, and I want to be at my best when I'm listening.
What kind of tips do you have to stay intentional, to stay present, to really listen without being weird about it.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: You know, we've.
[00:21:44] Speaker A: We've all been in those coffee meetings where somebody's looking at you just a little too intently. Yep. So how. How do you. How do you get good at that?
[00:21:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say, number one, get over yourself. That's number one. You. You don't matter. You will get benefit from talking and being part of these people, but you need to just remove yourself from the situation in a way, and.
And any agendas or hopes or ideas or things that you have, you know, that you've thought of before you actually have met with that person, you need to become a blank slate and be ready to accept the things that they are telling them. And number two, when you get over. When you get over yourself, then you can be actually honest, because something you said earlier is that there's been people in your moments and times in your life where it's made a big impact. I bet all of those were not necessarily a positive message, Jim. Right. Sometimes they might have been a harsh truth. Am I correct? Uh, yeah, that's.
[00:22:44] Speaker A: That's maybe for conversation number four, but, yeah.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: So, um. So I am. I am, uh, I am excited about providing honesty with people. If I feel like, um, they're doing something that I would not do, I'm very quick to call it out and not just say, oh, you'll be fine, or, oh, no, I'm sure, you know, you know, keep it up.
I'm, I'm very, and I guess, you know, if we were on the east coast, it would be this kind of normal, but here in the midwest, it's aggressive.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Where I want to aggressively help people. I don't want to passively help people. If I've got a half an hour to spend with a leader who's in transition, and they're asking me to look at their resume and I look at it and it's, it's just a list of job functions. I'm going to tell them, this is a terrible resume and you need to make fixes to it. And here's what I would first start doing. Whereas I think honesty wastes. I think being nice to people. And again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying being rude to people, but being, but trying to come across as a super nice person can get in the way of actually being helpful to people. So I'm not sure I'm explaining that the best way I could possibly, but I think you probably are picking up on what I'm laying down. Jim.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Well, I've gotten in the habit myself of saying to people where I feel comfortable doing this. I've essentially started saying, I respect you enough to tell you the truth, and this is not okay, this isn't good enough, or you're overselling yourself here, or you're underrepresenting what you're able to do over there.
And that's how I've stayed present. It's not about being a friendly presence, although I can do that if I need to. But it is more about, I've only got maybe 30 or 40 minutes. I have to be useful and valuable in the time that I'm here.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: And honestly, in my experience, there's nothing more friendly or helpful you can do than be honest, even if it maybe at first kind of irks that person. Right. The idea of being friendly is not just, well, I want you to think about me the way that I want you to think about me.
That's manipulative. That's not being friendly. Yeah, that's, yeah. So, and I understand there's different, there's different times and places for certain things, but if somebody is coming to me and asking for help, to your point, I, I've sat in. In a lunch that somebody asked me to go to lunch for 45 minutes, and they still haven't asked me for anything. And I'm at 45 minutes, I'm like, what do you want?
Well, I could see here and talk about the weather and blah, blah, blah all day long. I don't mind, but what do you want? So just start with that.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: On the. On the flip side of that, um, yeah, I've actually been able to build what I would consider friendships over the course of networking in the last ten years. So what advice would you have for people that are in networking mode on how they actually build real relationships, not just transactional? Hey, do you know somebody that's hiring, but, like, actual relationships?
[00:26:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I would say that there's a back to my point about some misconceptions. People either think that throughout life, you have people that you invite to your child's wedding and you have, or you have coworkers, and that in between, there's nothing. But in between is where we live. That's where you are. A whole person is in the gray. That's you're not a whole person when you're just at work or just when you are hanging out with your closest friends and relatives.
You're a whole person throughout all of those things. So agreeing and understanding that when you do go out and you do start networking, that you. That being in the gray is okay. It's okay that I have professional colleagues that I'm not necessarily going to invite to my daughter's wedding, but also, we might not ever have a chance to work together with. But guess what? In that area of Gray, whatever the cadence may be, it might be aggressive. Sometimes it might be very sporadic. At other times, it's natural. That's how the world works, that we will both benefit from it. Right? Something JFK said. Right, which is rising tide lifts all boats, right? So if I can help with the tide a little bit, I can help raise a lot of other boats, because there's so many people that I've talked to and given some either a quip or something that they remembered, and then they went and told 15 people and helped them. Like, that's the area of gray. My first piece of advice was like, don't try to categorize people into different sections. Like, this is a networking person. This is a person I worked with.
This is a potential job person, whatever. They're all in the gray area. I've helped so many people over the years in the transition, and guess what? Not on purpose, but some of these people have landed jobs and then hired my company. Yeah. To come and help them with things. That was never the intention, but it worked out great. I've had people that I've helped and then I've never heard from again. Uh, maybe they went and bought a chalet in the alps. I don't know.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: When you're networking, how do you. How do you handle it when you can't really help somebody? Like, if you don't have something there, like you, you can lend some support, but there's not an actual practical thing. How do you handle that?
[00:28:35] Speaker B: Yeah, first of all, I try to figure out what's. If I can't help it in the short term, what's the trajectory of the potential for help?
Let's say it is a person who was recently laid off. They haven't had a lot of time to get out there and meet people and get feedback and these things, because, again, they probably didn't do it while they were employed, and now they're doing it.
So I might not be able to help them in that moment, but I might be able to help them further on down as they start exploring more. And I always offer, you know, as you're out there and you're learning things and you're getting feedback, I'd love to hear from you on what you're hearing and seeing and maybe give you some perspective to it that you haven't had before. And so sometimes that's just it, Jim, is that being a good listener is really key, because these people in transition, and if anybody who's listening has never been in that position before, it is crushingly lonely. Yeah. Yeah. Your family doesn't understand what you're going through. Your spouse doesn't understand what you're going through. Your coworkers won't respond to your emails or asks for going out to happy hour.
People are not recruiters, don't get back to you. You send off resumes into a black hole. Oh, my God, it is crushing. So just being a good listener is so much value. You could provide somebody in transition, and so if I can't help them with maybe an intro or something in the meantime, I just try to focus on being a good listener and being able to empathize and let them know that you're not the only person going through this.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: I'm so glad you said that because, Kurt, I know there are times when I'm either on a zoom or meeting somebody for coffee where I realize I don't think I can help this person. But I can be kind, I can listen, and I can be patient, and I can provide some perspective that might be useful in ways that I can't imagine. I can do that.
And I know that sometimes that's all somebody needs to get through a day, you know?
[00:30:49] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:30:49] Speaker A: Like, the day's not a total shit show.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: Absolutely. Because think about it. Like, people pay hundreds of dollars an hour to go to talk to therapists, and they don't.
Being able to be somebody who can just be a good listener is sometimes all people need. Because if, if you've ever been to therapy, um, a lot of times they are just kind of regurgitating back what you're saying to them. And so, um, when it comes to a career standpoint, sometimes that's all you need to do to be a good listener. So what I'm hearing you saying is, is that, uh, sending out all these resumes isn't, isn't working. What do you, what do you think you should do about that? And sometimes just being that good listener to your point can be, it could just lift their day up. And if you can lift up their. That day, that one time, you've had a great impact on their life. You've been able to surrender some of the privilege of your position.
You've been able to leave the place a little bit better than what you found it that checked all the boxes for me.
[00:31:51] Speaker A: What a good reminder of just being a present human when somebody else needs it.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: And don't worry, there is transactional people out there. You will run into people that are like, hey, I would love to get you into some offshore development right now. Would you love that? And then, yeah, you're going to run into that like, it's okay, just, just ignore it and move on and keep networking and keep talking to people. Somebody's going to try to sell you insurance. Great. Like, okay, I don't need that. Thank you. Don't stop. Just because these things weren't exactly what you were hoping for, it doesn't mean that's the way that the rest of the path is paved.
[00:32:35] Speaker A: So how did you find the confidence to literally write the book on networking?
Because it's a tricky subject, but it takes confidence, a, to write a book, b, to write one on a topic like networking, and then c, do it during a pandemic when everything's changing.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, for all those reasons you just mentioned, I felt compelled to do so because I was doing a lot of help with people where they were laid off and I was getting introduced to them and I was giving them some ideas. And like I said, most of the people, their network and their networking skills was poor. And the more and more business leaders and business owners that I was working with, many of them were not into the nine week cycle of hiring senior level people into their organizations. They were coming in on Mondays and saying, we need a new CMO. Who do you know? Yeah, that's what was happening during the pandemic. And so as I was seeing that, I was like, oh, wow, these things have changed. And people still think it's this sort of back to my point about this sort of Jack Welsh sort of experience where we all follow this course, some sort of corporate rules that govern the way things work and that there are some sort of rules that people follow when there is no rules.
So.
So, for me, I was giving the advice out repeatedly, and I was getting repeated feedback that it was working for people. So right there, being able to test it gave me the confidence that the approach was, was good.
And then I had a good friend, Dara Beavis, at Wise Inc. Publishing in town. She came on my show and we chatted up and I mentioned to her this. And of course, you know, she's a publisher, she said, you should turn that into a book.
And I was, who, little old me? What? No. And she's like, oh, yeah, no, it's great. Like, we can help you get all set up and do this and this and that. And so I wrote a manuscript and I gave it to my mother in law, who is probably the best person to judge whether or not I did something correctly or not.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: She's good at judging, is that what you're saying?
[00:34:55] Speaker B: Well, I've just thrown it out there, Jim.
[00:34:58] Speaker A: We can edit that out.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: Well, plus, I know it's funny, but she was actually an editor for some magazines in the past, so I gave it to her. And she, again, not being a networker, not being in this space at all, she really enjoyed it and was like, oh, I'm glad I don't have to go back to finding a job. I'm glad I'm retired because it sounds exhausting. And I was like, yeah, can be.
And then, like I said, I wanted something that somebody could just read on a flight, like a two hour read.
And I had read all the, I mean, my dad gave me how to win friends and influence people. When I was like 14 or 15, I had read. I read the go giver, the 20 minutes networking meeting.
I read tons of them and what they were all what I was searching for in a lot of them is, what do I actually do?
Many of them were about mindset, about the headspace you should be in while you're doing what you're doing to find the resiliency to keep going and find the value in it. I wanted something that was like, do this for 15 minutes, then stop, then come back and do the. I wanted a more of a system. And so my book was not meant to replace any of the existing books that are out there. I think it is to complement a book like the go giver or some of these other things with you. Now you're excited about the idea of going out and giving to people.
Here's a framework that you can implement that will help get you started in doing it. Now, again, there's no rules. You can change it up however you like.
But again, as I said before, I was getting consistent feedback from people that this system that I had been using for years was working for them. And so I felt almost compelled to not keep it to myself anymore. That's it.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: That's awesome. And the book is available everywhere, right?
[00:37:03] Speaker B: For. That's right. Yep. The little book of networking. Yep. You can get them on Amazon. You can get it all over the place. It's great.
[00:37:09] Speaker A: That's fantastic. So can you talk to me about the project around the podcast, the Schmidt list? What's the, what's the goal? There is. I know it. I've listened to enough to know that it's beyond, it's definitely not content marketing. There's a mission behind this.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: What is. Yeah.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Tell the story of the mission of the Schmidt list.
[00:37:30] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, when I first started the show, I've always been a networker. I always been. I've always networked. It's just been a part of my DNA and who I am. And I was just, I realized once I had left and started the business, now that I was running my own business, I had a bit more control over my time. Right. And so that was helpful, but also scary. And I thought, well, if I'm not doing something that is actively helping the business, then I'm wasting time. Right.
But then I realized that helping the business was about growing as a business owner and a business leader. And so I started focusing on meeting and talking with other people that were either entrepreneurs or intrapreneurs because I didn't really think there's much difference in mindset between the two.
I've met intrapreneurs that are just as innovative as any entrepreneur I've ever met. So I was meeting with these folks, and I thought, again, back to kind of what I said earlier, was that if I would have, if I would have been able to sit here as a fly on the wall during this conversation, I would have learned so much from this conversation between Jim and Kurt. This I would have, you know, or at least I would have gotten, like, this one nugget, and I would have loved that. And so I thought to myself, like, somebody should record these conversations. I know, I'll record these conversations and I'll start a podcast, because why not? Like, it's easy, you know?
And then I immediately thought, like, well, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to commit to at least three years. I wasn't going to, I wasn't just going to do something to try it on like it was do or die. Like it was. We're going to go. And so here we are, six years later and 200 episode 235. I will be launching tomorrow. So it's been a journey of growth. Uh, and it's honestly, I'll tell you, um, 80% of it is just free consulting. Some of these people I have on the show charge hundreds of dollars an hour to give me their, you know, if I was to hire them for my business, right. Or for me personally or as a consultant.
So, uh, it's free consulting and it's great. And. And I tell them it's free consulting and they laugh and then they just give me free consulting. So it's great.
The other part of it is, again, to highlight and share with folks in my network that I think other people would find fascinating and interesting. We all are like, oh, you should check out this book I just read or watch this movie.
Have you seen the new blah blah blah or this tv show? Have you been watching Game of Thrones?
I'm kind of like that, but I'm also like that with business professionals.
Have you met Christine Sandman Stone? She wrote what I think is probably the missing manual for new managers. And it's fantastic. It was. It's one of my must read books. And I love the idea of being able to not only share that idea with people, but share a conversation with that person, with people. And on the backside of it, it provides me, like I said, with personal growth. It brings attention to me and my business, which is great and authentic. It allows me to try out different things, get out of my comfort zone. It allows me to promote a book and go out and do speaking events, and I get paid for some of that. So there's lots of, there's not one big thing. It's just a lot, a lot of things that comes from doing it well.
[00:41:27] Speaker A: I assumed that it was enriching in a lot of ways.
[00:41:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:41:31] Speaker A: Because you've been really disciplined about it. It's been admirable. I admire what you've been able to do.
[00:41:39] Speaker B: Well, I've been married a few times, so just like the podcast I have over commitment issues, Jim.
So, yeah, I still do the YouTube channel and I do unlinked in newsletter and a few other things. And I can't do one off things. It seems like a waste of time to just like, try something and see if it works because you never really know if something works until you've done it repeatedly and really gotten good at doing it. And I don't mean like, my podcast is awesome. I mean, I can produce and ship a podcast fairly efficiently right now. And now I can really step back and say, is the content good? Is it? Yeah. Is it helpful to people?
And, you know, it gets a few thousand downloads a month, so sounds like some people like it.
[00:42:33] Speaker A: It's working well. Kurt, thank you so much for making time, for doing this. I really enjoyed our conversation and I can't wait to see what's coming next.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Jim, thank you so much for the opportunity. Any chance I get a time to talk shop with you, I really appreciate it. So thank you. Awesome. Thanks.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to business drivers presented by Faron. You can find out more about
[email protected] and learn about the work we do. Sign up for our newsletter and find articles and resources to help you grow as a professional digital leader. Or you can follow us on twitterelloferrin or on LinkedIn. If you like what you heard, please tell a friend. It's the best way for us to grow our audience and meet you, you smart people. And if you have ideas or advice or feedback or complaints, please reach out on Twitter or send us an
[email protected]. That's b I z dash v dash r. Dashellellelloferrin.com. Until next time, this is Jim keen saying thanks.
